In the middle of the film, Trump revokes USAID and you see how it affects the gay soldier and then the people who use the grants for amputees. Do you think that is one of his greatest crimes as president?
Penn: Oh yeah. I mean, a kind way to put it would be negligent homicide, but we’ve been told not to use those terms. It’s not polite, which is ironic. We are accepting a great degree of denial and we still believe that we’re bulletproof.
The kids sort of have a funny reaction to Trump when they watch him. What was the Ukrainian youth’s overall attitude toward him?
Haney: I was really surprised at how receptive they were to Trump in the beginning, and it all comes into that one quote, “I’ll end the war in 24 hours.” So when you, as a Ukrainian, you’re not growing up with the context, the nuance of growing up in America and Trump every day. When you hear that in the news as a Ukrainian, that’s the best thing you could possibly hear. That’s salvation, that’s the end of the war. So for them, that stuck above everything. And there was this huge, “Okay, hold on. Let’s take this chance. If that’s what he’s saying, that’s the best we’ve been told by far.”
So there’s this kind of rallying behind Trump, and then it became evident, this guy’s absolutely full of shit. There was this crazy backlash.
This meeting with Zelensky, Trump and Vance was embarrassing to watch in the theater. Did that change things on the ground?
Haney: Absolutely. And it was after that was when I went into the bunker with them. I’m a liability to them. Me being there makes them less safe. There was a lot of thoughts that night of post-Trump. That was a crystallizing moment for Ukraine.
Sean, do you remember watching that?
Penn: Yeah. A guy said to me early on, at the beginning of the war, disillusionment is a national pastime. There was so much criticism going on about Zelensky not kissing the ring and saying thank you again and again.
Criticism from where?
Penn: A lot of the mainstream media in North America.
You mean Fox News?
Penn: No, even I was even seeing it on CNN. It wasn’t the only coverage. It wasn’t the only one, but it was there. There was nothing that was going to change the outcome of that meeting.
